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Oct 1 07 9:47 PM

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Statement from Former Iglesia ni Cristo Member
by Marlowe Ranola

I'm a former Iglesia ni Cristo member. I was expelled from the church because of my question about the three angels written in Rev. 14:6-11. I chose to be expelled rather than remain with them because they want me to write a declaration that I am wrong, which is not so hard to do if I am wrong. My question to the doctrine of the three angels are this:


1) According to history, apostle Paul died about 68 AD., and the book of Revelation was written about 96 AD. My question is how can a dead man fulfill a prophecy? Although a few scholars date the book of Revelation about 68 or 69 AD, this could never change the burden of proof. The New Hunger's Bible Dict., p. 1078, states: "REVELATION, BOOK OF THE -Occasion and Date. Quite a few scholars date the book about A.D. 68 or 69 (Westcott, Lightfoot, Hort, and Salmon). The reasons for this, however are not convincing. The best date seems to be A.D. 95 or 96 (cf. Swete, Milligan, Moffatt, and Zand). This date accords with evidence from Iraneus, Clement of Alexandria, and Eusebius to the effect that the banishment to Patmos was in the later reign of Domitian, 81-96. This view is in agreement with the fact that the Domitian persecution, unlike the Neronic, was the result of the Christians' refusal to worship the emperors (cf. 1:9; 13:1-19,12)."

2) The book of Revelation is a book of prophecy (Rev. 22:18, NRSV). According to their book, Mga Leksiyong Ministeryal, p. 20: The Mission of Written Prophecy - "Written prophecy therefore, has a two-fold mission, one for the immediate present, and the other the remote future."

Because the book of Revelation is a book of prophecy, therefore, in the book of Revelation are things that must soon take place (Rev. 1:1, 19; 22:6).

Rev. 1:19(NIV) "Write therefore, what you have seen, what is now, and what will take place later."

What you have seen - "I turned round to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned *I saw seven golden lampstands*" (Rev. 1:12,Ibid.)

What is now in the seven churches - See Rev. 1:20; 2:1-29; 3:1-22.

What will take place - "The angel said to me. 'These words are trustworty and true. The Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, *sent his angel to show his servants the things that must soon take place*" (Rev. 22:6, Ibid.)

Therefore, no prophecy in the book of Revelation fulfilled before 96 AD, the time it was written.

MARTIN LUTHER (Rev. 14:8; 18:1-3)-

To their book, Isang Pagbubunyag sa Iglesia ni Cristo, pp. 157-160, 163-164, clearly said there that there are two kinds of angels in nature, Spirit in nature (Heb. 1:13-14), and Man in nature (Rev. 1:20). Angel in nature of man has a two fold mission, one to proclaim the good news (2 Cor. 5:20), and the other is to govern (1 Pet. 2:13-14). The very question is, if Martin Luther is the second angel (Rev. 14:, clearly the belief of Martin Luther is right, and his followers have salvation. If that so, how could they claim that they are the only true church? Isn't that a contradiction? See, which reads:

"3. "God reveals the meaning of his words to his messengers by means of the Holy Spirit (2 Peter 1:20-22), and the proof that the messengers were taught by the Holy Spirit is that their teachings never contradict one another." (Church Of Christ: 25 Years In The West, page 24.)

FELIX MANALO (Rev. 14:9; 18:4-5)-

If the teaching of the first and second angel are wrong, surely the teaching of the third angel is also wrong. There are two bases why they said that the prophecy to the third angel was fulfilled to Bro. Felix Manalo:

1) Felix Manalo proclaimed that the sign of the cross practice by the Catholics is the sign of the cross mentioned in Rev. 14.9. See God's Message, Int. Ed., Jan. 99, p. 8. If this is the basis, we can also say that the third angel is fulfilled to Erano Manalo, because he proclaimed who is the beast mention in Rev. 14:9. See Doktrina Ikatlong Taon, Blg. 21. Therefore this is not a good reason to prove to be the third angel.

2) Felix Manalo proclaimed that the Catholic church is the apostatize church. Do you think this is a good proof that must be show to claim he is the third angel? Is he the only one who teach that the Catholic church is the apostatize church? What is the reason why did he need to prove that the Catholic church is the apostatize church? Here in

Did Christ's Church Apostatize?

The doctrines upon which all Iglesia's other doctrines depend is its teaching that the Christ's Church apostatized in the early centuries. Like Mormonism, the Jehovah's Witnesses, and other fringe groups, Iglesia asserts that the early Christian Church suffered a total apostasy. It believes in "the complete disappearance of the first-century Church of Christ and the emergence of the Catholic Church" (Pasugo, July-Aug. 1979, p.. This doctrine is essential because one can't take seriously Manalo's claim's to have reintroduced the true Church if, in fact, the original true Church never died. *You can't have a "restoration" without an apostasy*.

Saan mo mababasa na ang Angel ay takot sa Debate?
USERNAME0003 is your temporary username. The username Angelmanalo will not be acknowledge in the forum. Usernames and thread titles are accredited to the forum admin. You can change your username in your profile.-hakon

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Apr 18 17 8:33 PM

I like the way you outlined your post. It is very neat and well prepared. I am sorry to hear you got expelled but you seem to have all the guts in bearing the consequence for what you believed in. I just would like to share my thought though.
1st angel (Paul) - everything that concerns you here is the period when they should take place. That is very wise. However, all the date and timeline given by those who worked hard in studying them are still based on "best assumptions" but no one knows exactly when the book of revelation was started, nor the death of apostle Paul happened. In fact to debate over the period of time will only be based on one's best assumption. Pero balikan natin yung tanong mo. Say for a moment, you are correct. What would be Paul's participation in the prophecy if he is dead? Will he remain relevant? I think it is worth to read the prophecies again.
John said in his book of revelation,
New International Version
Then I saw another angel flying in midair, and he had the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who live on the earth--to every nation, tribe, language and people.
According to the prophecy, the angel being mentioned here will proclaim the gospel to every nation, tribe, language and people. Paul's time of death is in fact, irrelevant in fulfilling this "prophecy". Why? because he was prophesied to proclaim the gospel to "all". How far do you think it has to take in terms of fulfillment? He has to go through all the languages?
But are we still certain that the one prophesied here was Paul? Yes, because the same description of statement was received by Paul from the Lord.
Acts 13:47
GOD'S WORD® Translation
The Lord gave us the following order: 'I have made you a light for the nations so that you would save people all over the world.'"
The prophecy for the first angel in my view, is not just about "who" but most importantly, about the work "being" carried out.

2nd Angel (Martin Luther)
The angel revealed that "babylon has fallen". Does it necessarily leads to salvation? The task of this angle is to declare a "fact".

3rd Angel (Bro. Felix Manalo)
Your conclusion was derived on your belief that the 2nd angel was wrong. Martin Luther was the discoverer of the fallen babylon (catholic church) and so he told people. Prophecy fulfilled. However, Martin remained trinitarian with the rest of his days. The same dogma he kept from catholicism. One to lead people towards salvation should carry true teachings concerning salvations. One of the teaching concerning salvation is none other than to know the Father, as the only true God. Apart from it, one simply cannot be saved.
John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they know you (Father), the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
(emphasis is mine)

Apostasy was foreseen in the bible. It happened. If not, can you show me the true decendants of the first century church, that remained followers of the true teachings of Christ?

Last Edited By: magicseed Apr 18 17 8:50 PM. Edited 2 times.

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